John Godden Oral History Transcript

Title

John Godden Oral History Transcript

Subject

John Godden

Description

Transcription of an oral history recording of interviewee John Godden

Creator

Michael Romyn

Source

John Godden Oral History Recording

Publisher

Kent's Sporting Memories

Date

14 October, 2020; interview recorded on 25 August, 2020

Contributor

John Godden; Michael Romyn

Rights

Kent's Sporting Memories

Relation

John Godden Oral History Recording; John Godden Oral History Summary

Format

Microsoft Word Document

Language

English

Type

Typed Transcript

Identifier

John Godden

Text

Kent’s Sporting Memories Oral History Transcription
Interviewee: John Godden
Interviewer: Michael Romyn
Date: 25 August, 2020
Location: Remote Interview

John Godden: My name is John William Godden, my date of birth is the 12th of June, 1944, and I was born in Folkestone.
Michael Romyn: Have you lived in Folkestone all your life?
JG: No, I live in Hythe now. It’s – I can see Folkestone out of my front window because I’m right on the border between Folkestone and Hythe, I don’t know if you know the area but, yeah, I’m just into Hythe and I’ve lived here since 1975.
MR: Where’s the dividing line?
JG: In the field in front of my house! The road up, I can see the next road up is in Folkestone, it’s virtually – I’ve got my garden, the drive, the fence, and then I go over the fence I’m in Folkestone.
MR: Were your parents born in Folkestone?
JG: Yes, yes, both my mother and my father, yes.
MR: And your grandparents?
JG: Erm, as far as I know, yes. Yes, pretty certain that they were, yes.
MR: What did your parents do for a living?
JG: We had a dairy, a milk delivery business. We sold that in 1983 because supermarkets were sort of taking over and, and we were losing customers to supermarkets so we sold it to the big boys.
MR: So it wasn’t a dairy farm?
JG: No, my grandfather had a dairy farm, years and years ago, but no, we didn’t. We didn’t have a dairy farm. It was just – when we first start, before I’d started work, err, we bottled our own milk, we had milk delivered into the dairy where we lived and it was pasteurized and bottled. But, soon after, just before I started work, we had an agreement with the bigger company, that would do, bottle our milk, and deliver it into our fridge, and on our rounds we’d just take it out then, so we didn’t have to do any more bottling or pasteurizing.
MR: And then you said 1983 the supermarkets put an end to that?
JG: Yeah, the supermarkets were sort of taking over and we were losing a bit of trade. And my father was oof an age where, he would have been in 80, he would have been just into his seventies, and it was up to whether I decided I was going to carry on or not and I could see the way it was going so we decided no, we would sell up.
MR: Any regrets?
JG: No, not looking at it now. Mind you I would, I would have been passed the retiring age now but no, no regrets at all. I went into – part of the agreement was I went and worked for the company we sold the business to.
MR: Going back a bit, where did you live when you were growing up in Folkestone?
JG: It was in an area called Cheriton, Cheriton.
MR: What do you remember about that? About being very young in Cheriton?
JG: Err, yeah I can remember [laughs], we had, where we lived, it was an old manor house with a dairy on the side, and it was a big yard and I think it was, it was probably farm buildings many years ago, I don’t remember that. And it was a big yard, we used to play cricket in there with all my friends, and yeah, it was – there was an army cap just up the road, which is still there, where the Gurkhas are now but we had in those days with National Service on, plenty of army people, personnel around.
MR: Did you go to school in Cheriton?
JG: Yes, yes, I went to a school called Sir John Moore, Sir John Moore School, who was a famous soldier. They named it after him, there’s still Sir John Moore barracks, where the Gurkhas now are.
MR: Was that a primary school?
JG: That was a primary school, yes.
MR: What was there in the way of sport?
JG: Not a lot, we played a bit of football but not a lot. Our headmistress didn’t believe in, in us playing too much sport – it was too dangerous I think, she thought. We didn’t play cricket at all, but just a bit of football, that was about it. Of course it was running, athletics, but that was about it. It wasn’t until – mind you I was already playing cricket then because my father was involved with Folkestone Cricket Club, and I was, I was – went to a chap, cricketer called Doug Wright, who played for Kent and England, had a cricket school at Shorncliffe, and I used to go up there for coaching because he was a friend of my fathers, and Doug Wright used to coach me.
MR: Was that associated with Folkestone Cricket Club?
JG: That was separate, my father did that separately.
MR: You come from a sporting family then?
JG: Oh yeah my father was captain of Folkestone Cricket Club for 20, over 25 years he was captain. He started here after the war and he went on to around ’56, ’57, sorry ’58. We played together when he was coming to the end of his cricket life and I had just started mine. We played – he came down and played for the second eleven so he could play with me for a few games. Funnily enough they were, my father and my uncle, who was Jo’s father, were identical twins, and they were identical too. And all we all lived together in the same house, this house where the dairy was, and it was a big house. And of course they used to talk to each other and get ready to go out in the evening, they went out in the evening, they would always wear the same shirt, trousers, tie, jacket, when they went out. A lot of people just couldn’t tell the difference.
MR: Did you grandfather play cricket?
JG: No, not at all. I mean he didn’t play, no. Wasn’t interested.
MR: How did your dad and uncle get into it?
JG: Erm, I think it was, I’m pretty certain it was – they went to the Harvey Grammar School, and I think cricket was a big thing at the Harvey Grammar School in Folkestone, and they started there. And that’s where they met a chap called Lesley Ames, no doubt you might of heard of?
MR: Yes.
JG: Who was Kent and England wicket keeper, well he wasn’t then, he was at the same school ‘cause he was born in Elham and yeah, they got very friendly with Les Ames as well through cricket. And they became lifelong friends.
MR: Did Ames play for Folkestone as well?
JG: No, no. He might have played for Elham, but he played for Kent all his life, Kent, and he was in the, Lesley Ames was in the bodyline, I don’t know if you’ve heard of the bodyline series in Australia in about ’32, ’33, when England bowlers were sort of bowling at the Australian err, at the Australians, err, quite dangerously, to combat the Donald Bradman who was scoring a lot of runs, but Les, Les was in the bodyline series out in Australia. And as I say he lived in Elham, which, I don’t know if you’ve heard of Elham? It’s a sort of village between Canterbury and Folkestone.
MR: Did you know Lesley Ames?
JG: Yes, knew him very well.
MR: Did you ever talk to him about the bodyline series?
JG: I didn’t no, no, I didn’t.
MR: I don’t really know much about it but was it quite controversial?
JG: Oh very controversial. Very, very controversial, yes.
MR: Was it a touchy subject?
JG: I don’t think so, no – it was, obviously it was a long time before I was around. It’s just mainly, I’d read about it, or you see – they still show clips on TV about it, so I, I never spoke to Les Ames about it or anything. He probably spoke to my father about it, I don’t know, but I don’t remember talking to him about it. But err...
MR: Do you know how your father and uncle actually got involved with Folkestone Cricket Club?
JG: I don’t. No, to be honest, I don’t know. I’d imagine it’s because they were, erm, quite young and up and coming cricketers I presume. I don’t really know that one, I can’t answer it, sorry.
MR: Was there any sort of rivalry between your uncle and father?
JG: No, none whatsoever.
MR: And both pretty accomplished cricketers?
JG: Yeah, my father carried on. My uncle sort of packed up a little bit earlier. My father was, carried on playing. I don’t remember much about my uncle playing cricket, I barely remember him playing a couple of games. He’d finished before I started.
MR: But you remember watching your father play?
JG: Oh yes, yeah. I scored for, started scoring for Folkestone – what was I? About 11, 12 years old I’d say, 12 years old, he was still playing then so yeah I saw him play a lot.
MR: That must have been amazing…
JG: Yeah! I tell you what also was amazing – on a Sunday afternoon, they always started at 11:30, and we used to have a lot of sides come down from London to play against Folkestone in those days, and you could bet your life, if it was a sunny afternoon – this is, I’m talking about the fifties now – there’d be in the region of a 1000 people sitting round the stands at Folkestone, watching Folkestone play, it was a lot of people used to come in.
MR: That’s incredible. Do you ever get any numbers like that anymore?
JG: No! No whatsoever. The only, we get a few parents in, ’cause we run quite a good colts’ section at Folkestone now, and we get quite a few. And we run four sides, and sort of the thirds and the fourth team have quite a few colts playing for them, and the parents do come along and watch, so that sort of swells the attendance up, but it’s not that many. If we have 50, 60 that’s a lot.
MR: So you had a good portion of the town coming out in those days?
JG: Oh yes, yeah, it was a lot. Because there was nothing else to do on a Sunday afternoon. There was no television, there was no Sunday League Cricket or anything was there? There was nothing else to do, so they used to come and watch Folkestone play cricket.
MR: Did that mean that the cricket players were kind of celebrities in the town? Were they known?
JG: I wouldn’t say celebrities. They were well known, yeah. They were quite well-known in the area, well obviously if people came and watched they found out all the names were, and err, and who they were, yeah. There was one or two wags in the crowd giving a little bit of encouragement, if you follow my drift? Telling my father what he ought to do!
MR: Were there any privileges afforded them because of this?
JG: Not that I know of, no. No, as I say I was only about 12, 13 in those days. What they got up to afterwards or where they went out I have no idea.
MR: When did you first pick up a bat?
JG: What for – I played my first game, I think I was 12, 13. Thirteen I think. The captain of the second 11 was one short and he said – he knew I played – and he asked my father if I could play for the second 11 in a game. I think it was about 1956 I think it was. Might have been ’56/57. Long time ago.
MR: Was that second 11 team a men’s team?
JG: Yes, yes. I mean we didn’t run anything like colts in those days.
MR: I see – there was no junior set-up?
JG: Not in those days, no.
MR: Would you just play with friends to practice and get better? How would you improve?
JG: Myself? Yeah, I’d play with friends, in the evenings we would go, there was a field near us, and we used to turn up, a load of us and just play around on the field, bat and bowl, which was nothing to do, nothing to do with the cricket club. It was just friends where we lived, lived round us in Cheriton, and school friends. I played schools cricket when I went to the senior school.
MR: What school was that?
JG: It was called Morehall. It was only a – I was never a brain, I didn’t go to a grammar school, no. It was more of a secondary modern, Morehall.
MR: Did they have a good cricket team?
JG: We had a very good cricket team, yes. Three or four of the boys I played with came along with me and played for Folkestone.
MR: And it was encouraged at school?
JG: Yeah, oh yeah. We had – if you’ve got a good master who’s interested in cricket I think it helps, and we did.
MR: Do you remember the master’s name?
JG: Erm, no! It might come to me before – if it comes to me I’ll let you know.
MR: But he was very good was he?
JG: Yeah, yes. Well we had several’ cause we had the, we had the, I think we had the first years and then we had under 13s, under 15s, so there were several masters. I think one was called Mr Lee, I think, but I’m not 100 per cent certain.
MR: Would you play against other schools?
JG: Public schools? No, no, we played other secondary modern schools, we played – there were about four secondary modern schools in Folkestone, we played a few at Ashford, Dover, but I think the, the only school we played that was more than a secondary modern was the Harvey Grammar School at Folkestone, at a, but they were always too strong for us. Apart from one year when we were 15, we had about three, as I said went along to play for Folkestone, we had quite a good side.
MR: So you got the better of them one year?
JG: Yeah we did, yes. We played their, I think their under 15s, and we were a bit, a little bit older and, but they suggested we play their first 11 but we just said, ‘Well next year we won’t be here and we won’t be strong enough’, so it never happened.
MR: Tell me a bit more about the cricket school? Don Wright?
JG: Doug, Doug Wright.
MR: What was the set up there?
JG: It’s just he had a cricket school where – you had to, you pay to err, paid him for coaching, and he had a sort of cricket school up at Shorncliffe camp, and you just went along, he had a net in there, and you had half an hour, an hour, and he would give you coaching. You would bat, and he would show you were you’re going wrong, and then he would bowl – he was a bowler himself. I mean he holds, Doug Wright, anybody in cricket knows, Doug Wright holds the record for the most hattricks in cricket. He’s had seven hattricks in cricket, which is a record. But he was a very nice chap as well, very good. I went there for two or three years I think.
MR: Did he play for Kent?
JG: Oh Kent and England. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Doug Wright, played for Kent and England.
MR: So that was a real boon to have him so close by?
JG: Oh yeah, I think this is probably getting towards the end of his, his career as a, as a professional cricketer. I was just trying to think what year. It must have been about 1955/56, I suppose, but I think he went on a little after that, yeah.
MR: Was your father around at all at the old ground?
JG: No, when did it say we moved to Cheriton Road?
MR: I think it was 1901.
JG: Oh, was it, I didn’t think it was that early. I thought it was in the twenties. I’m not, I can’t give a – I know we had the pavilion, which is no longer there, we knocked it down about seven years ago because we got the new place, but the err – I thought it was about 1925, 1926, because we’ve got a picture in the pavilion, did you go in the Three Hills Pavilion?
MR: Yes.
JG: Yeah, there’s a picture in there of an England 11 playing the Australians at Folkestone, I think it was ’25 or ’26, and I thought that was the opening of the ground bity I could be wrong, don’t quote me on that one!
MR: You were obviously around the club from a very early age…
JG: I was around the club, I started involved in scoring I’d say about ’54, 55 I probably started scoring, and I started playing in about – I had a couple if games in I think in about ’56, and then ’57, ’58 I started playing a lot more for the second 11.
MR: That first game you mentioned – what do you remember about that game?
JG: Not a lot! I remember it was against a side called Willsborough, which is in Ashford but I can’t remember much about to be honest, I mean it was 50, 60 years ago. Sixty years, over sixty years ago. I can remember, I think it was the end of 1957, our captain asked me – we were playing in a 11:30 game which is unusual for second 11, and some people hadn’t turned up, and he asked me to open the batting, because I’d been batting at nine, 10, 11. And me and the other opening bat put 50 on them, I got 30 I remember that, and that’s, I didn’t look back after that because the very first game of the next season at Folkestone I got 58, I do remember that, and that was against Folkestone Century, which was – in those days there was lots of local clubs which we don’t get now obviously.
MR: Was it quite rare for a 12, 13-year-old to be playing in the men’s team?
JG: It was in those days, yes, Yes.
MR: I imagine that was quite intimidating?
JG: Err, well I did know them all, I mean that was one thing – they knew me and I knew them. I mean I only played a game – I’m just trying to think, ’57 I would have been 13, coming, well 13 in June that year. I don’t remember it being intimidating, no. As I say I knew, I knew most of the players, I’d known the captain. The captain’s name was Bill Hewson, who was the president who unfortunately died last year. He was captain of the second eleven then, I knew him quite well and to be fair he was very good to me, he kept talking and, to me. I don’t think I was.
MR: What about being on the receiving end of some fast bowling?
JG: Well! Some of the bowlers would see me coming and start, you know, bowling slower but, I, it didn’t worry me – there wasn’t anything too quick in the second 11 in those days. They were sort of medium, medium pace, which was probably to me was a little bit quicker than I faced at school but, no, that didn’t worry me too much.
MR: Was batting your strength?
JG: Batting, well it was, yes, to start with, but I was an all-rounder but I was a batting all-rounder – batting would be my main sort of, but I did bowl a bit. I used to bowl sort of medium, and then I took to off-spin, which I found a lot easier! I don’t know how old I was when I took to off-spin – it was probably when I was in my late-20s I suppose, early 30s.
MR: When sis you progress from the second 11 to the first team?
JG: Oh crikey, erm, that’s a good question and I – I think it must have been in, I might have played a few games in the very late ‘60s. Probably the late- ‘60s, say ’69, ’70. Yes , it must have been because the first league game was in 1971, our league started, and I was in the first team in 1971 in the first league game. It must have been about then.
MR: What was the league structure in the ‘60s and ‘70s? Was it a Kent League?
JG: 1971 it was a Kent League, yeah. I think there were about 12, 13 teams in, in the Kent League, and that was local teams like, we had Dover, Ashford, the Moat at Maidstone. There weren’t any of the London teams in the Kent League playing, they didn’t join up until later. The Bromleys and the Beckenhams and the Blackheaths. They didn’t come in ‘till, I don’t know, I can’t tell you what year. It was a few years after the Kent League started but, erm, as I say there were about 14 teams in the Kent League in those days I think. Not like now.
MR: What was the furthest afield you’d have to go?
JG: Ah, furthest afield, crikey. Maidstone, Sittingbourne, Turnbridge Wells. Tunbridge Wells was probably the furthest, Sevenoaks.
MR: Who were traditionally the strongest sides in the Kent League?
JG: In those days, the Moat at Maidstone, Tunbridge Wells.
MR: How sis Folkestone fair?
JG: Very poorly! We didn’t do very well at all to start with. Err, then we picked up – I’m trying to think in the ‘70s, we had a skipper come in and all of a sudden we – I can’t, I should’ve got the book out, Kent League, I could have told you what year we were runners up, but no doubt when you come down I can, I can show you that. I think it, just trying to think – it must have been late ‘70s, early- ‘80s we started picking up a bit. And we won – we’ve won the Kent League twice, erm, one was, 1989 we won the Kent League, I do remember that one.
MR: were you still playing for the team then?
JG: No. No unfortunately in ’89 we’d sold our business and I sort of had to step away a little bit from playing on Saturdays because in the dairy business, when I worked for my father he, he understood I had to have Saturdays off, when I worked for this company they didn’t! So I, I had to work quite a few Saturdays so I sort of stepped away from playing. I played a few second 11 games if I could get Saturdays off but err, unfortunately not very often.
MR: Back in your father’s day – was the team quite strong then?
JG: Yes they were quite strong back in the ‘50s, yes quite a strong side. They had one player, called John Spanswick, who was a local Folkestone boy who went onto to play for Kent in the ‘50s.
MR: Did your father ever get a shot at Kent?
JG: No, no, no.
MR: After that period it sort of dipped a bit did it?
JG: Well the sixties weren’t too bad. But we seemed to dip when the Kent League started in, in the ‘70s and we finished – I don’t think we ever finished bottom but we were around about the bottom area, and then we, as I say, we gradually pulled ourselves up and got better and better, and as I say we won the Kent League in ’89, and we won it again in – I can’t remember what year – 2002, 2001, I’m not sure what year it was. But they had a period in that, the second time we won it it was played over two weekends over two innings, which wasn’t very popular, but – we had, that’s when we had James Treadwell just started playing for us, ‘cause he’s a local boy, I don’t know if you’ve heard of him have you? Played for England and Kent? And Geraint Jones, who was the England wicket keeper when they won the Ashes in 2005, I think, he played for us, he came along and played for us. So we had quite a strong side. That was, that was 2000, I think it was 2001, 2002, it must have been, 2003, something like that. But in the ‘50s as I say it was John Spanswick who was, who was an opening bowler played for Kent who came through the Folkestone side.
MR: You mentioned the Kent League came in the 1970s – what was the structure before that?
JG: Just friendlies. Play – Saturdays we’d start, we’d have two o’clock starts Saturdays. Mainly local sides we used to play or Dover, Ashford, so it was local on Saturdays, and Sundays has always been the 11:30 start, and nearly all at home, and we’d have quite a few sides come down from London. And we also had a mid-week side virtually every Wednesday, we’d play a mid-week game as well. But that’s gradually dropped, you don’t get midweek cricket now because you don’t get sides, you, well people don’t get off work now I suppose.
MR: So there was no league table or anything like that?
JG: No, not, not until – 1971 was the start of the league table. Nothing before then. It was, a lot of people opposed it in, in, when it came in but err, more wanted that didn’t but there were one or two who weren’t keen to have league cricket, but it came in.
MR: Why was there that opposition to it?
JG: I don’t know. Perhaps – I really don’t know. I don’t know what the opposition was.
MR: Was it anything to do with the amateur nature of it?
JG: Well it could have been I suppose, yeah. Things certainly changed afterwards, it got more competitive as time went on in the Kent League, yeah.
MR: Do you know if your dad had an opinion on it?
JG: Not that I can remember, no. No, no. Obviously he was not playing anymore then, but no, not to my knowledge. He was, what ‘70, ’71, he was chairman, he was chairman then. No, not to my knowledge he didn’t have anything, no.
MR: You mentioned you played a couple of games with your dad – what was that like?
JG: Oh that was interesting! He was, he was a wicket keeper. And err, yeah he – as I say that was well over 50 years ago, it’s difficult to remember but yeah, it was, it was nice to play with your father, yeah. I can’t really remember much, much else about it, yeah.
MR: What did you di after you left school?
JG: I, I went into the family business. The dairy business. I went and worked for my father.
MR: What would that be like on a day-to-day basis? What would you be doing?
JG: I did everything. If somebody was, one of our roundsman was sick I’d go out and do a milk round, err mainly I’d be in the office or round the dairy but I was, I was a general dogs body really I suppose. I did the office work, I did, as I say, somebody went off sick I had to go out and do his round, yeah.
MR: Did you enjoy it?
JG: Yes I did, yeah, yeah. It also meant sometimes I’d get up early in the morning, you’d finish about half nine, 10 o’clock, it means I could go off for the rest of the day and play cricket! I, I used to play, most weeks three games a week, yeah, at least, yeah.
MR: So you got the bug then?
JG: Oh yes, yes. Most certainly.
MR: Did you play any other sports?
JG: Yeah, I played a bit of soccer, bit of football. Erm, in local leagues in, in Folkestone. Then I packed that up and I started playing hockey, because, I don’t know if you know but the hockey club and the cricket club are in the same, on the same area, use the same facilities. And obviously I knew a lot of hockey club, hockey players – one of them said to me, ‘Why don’t you come and play hockey?’, I said, ‘I’ll give it a try.’ Next weekend I got a card through the, through the post said I’ve been selected to play for Folkestone Optimists, that’s what they’re called, fifth 11. And I probably played two or three years hockey.
MR: What sort of time period was this?
JG: When was this? This would’ve been about, err, ’70, mid- ‘70s I would have thought. Yeah, about the mid-‘70s, ’74, ’75, ’76, ’77. Something like that I would’ve thought.
MR: So you stayed working at your family’s business until the ‘80s, is that right?
JG: Yeah, I was there right until the last day. It was in September 1983. And the very next day I went down to the company that bought us, which was only just down the road from where we were, and I started work there. I started work, I had to – because we had six, seven rounds in Folkestone, and ‘cause all the, all the men who worked for us went down there as well, and I sort of had to sort of make sure everything went through smooth. The manager asked me to come down and make sure everything went smooth and after about six or seven weeks he offered me a job, thank goodness.
MR: So there wasn’t a guarantee initially that you’d have a job?
JG: No, no there wasn’t. Erm, it was only when one of the supervisors said to me, ‘What’s happening to you?’ And I said, ‘I don’t know, I’ve not heard yet.’ I said, ‘I best go and have a word with the area manager’, and then next thing, he obviously did, and he called me up to his office and said, ‘I’m offering you a job as a supervisor’, and I said, ‘Oh thank you very much’. And that’s where I stayed until I retired in 2006. Not the same – we kept changing companies because we kept getting bought out, there was Unigate and Dairy Crest, which obviously you’ve probably heard of.
MR: Did you still enjoy the job despite having to work Saturdays?
JG: Oh yes I enjoyed the job, yes. Well that’s all I knew. Yes I quite enjoyed the job because it was, it was, meant I didn’t have to go out so often. The odd occasion I had to go out early if we’ve got problems but no, I was in the office most of the time. I ended up working at Ashford in the what we called the wholesale section as a product, product controller, which I did all the ordering and, and controlling all the stock, err, for 20-off wholesale vehicles – we used to go out all round Kent. That’s the job I enjoyed the most. But unfortunately that was the Saturday as well, ‘cause you have to be there on a Saturday because if not the roundsman will clear your fridge out when you’re not looking.
MR: So you commuted to Ashford for that?
JG: Yes I did, yes I – Ashford’s only about 14, 15 miles up the road and it’s – I’ve got the motorway up the top of where I live and the motorway virtually goes to where I work so it didn’t take long.
MR: And so when did you leave Folkestone? In the 1970s?
JG: 1975.
MR: What was the reason for the move?
JG: Well I got married. I was living in with my parents, and I moved out. I mean it’s only, phew God, I can drive to where we use to live from here in about three minutes.
MR: How did you meet your wife?
JG: On a cricket tour in Wales!
MR Really?!
JG: Yeah.
MR: Can you tell me about that?
JG: Err, I can tell you, yeah. We were playing cricket at a place, Crickhowell, which is near Abergavenny, and her brother was playing and she came along and we started chatting and she came down to the pub in the evening and we got talking and, the rest is history as they say! After a few, I used to phone up and then go drove down there, and then she moved up here.
MR: Is your wife Welsh?
JG: Yes.
MR: And she was happy to move down to the south coast?
JG: Oh yes, yeah.
MR: Have you lived in the same place in Hythe ever since?
JG: Yes, ever since.
MR: You mention you went on tour with the club – was that a regular thing?
JG: Ah no, sorry I didn’t mention that, I went with Hythe. Hythe Cricket Club. I got chatted up – I used to go into the Hythe Cricket Club, there was a guy in there, a chap called Dick Apps, who talked me into going on a cricket tour to, to – can’t think when it was now, early ‘70s, and yeah, and so I went with, I went for quite a few years, few years on the trot down there with them. But I never played for Hythe, I just used to go on the cricket tour with them. Because Folkestone didn’t use to tour in those days, so I went with Hythe.
MR: was that the lobster touring team?
JG: [Laughs] You’ve heard of the famous Lobsters have you?
MR: I have, I’ve heard of Dick Apps…
JG: You’ve heard of Dick Apps? Oh right. Yeah, well I can tell you then, it was Hythe Cricket Club in those days, erm, it hadn’t changed to the Lobsters then. I can’t tell you exactly when they changed the name to Lobsters. It’s not so much to do with Hythe – but the reason it was called the Lobsters. In those days we had a, a mascot which was a plastic Lobster, one of those things you see in fish, err, fish shops, and they used to put a bit of rope round it and sort of drag it around with them as the mascot. It went everywhere. And, I stopped, I don’t know when I stopped touring, and the next thing I hear it’s called the Lobsters. And I’ve been down, I’ve been down since, since it’s been the Lobsters, but err, yeah the Lobsters. In fact they didn’t go down this year because obviously all the problems, so what they did, they did a short tour, well it wasn’t a tour, around, around Kent. They played Chestfield, St Lawrence, and Sandwich. It was, I think it was last, week before last.
MR: How many tours with the Hythe team did you go on?
JG: Did I go on? Crikey. I must have been on about 10, 15 I suppose.
MR: Was it usually to Wales or elsewhere?
JG: Always, always the same place, yes. Up to Wales, always played the same, the same side, yeah, Abergavenny, Crickhowell, Newbridge, Panteg, always played the same sides. They don’t play so many, when they go down now – we used to go down Sunday and come back Saturday morning, now they go down Sunday and come back about Wednesday I think, or Thursday. Wednesday or Thursday, yeah.
MR: Would the Welsh teams ever come over to Hythe?
JG: They have done, yes. Newbridge have been up here I think. Erm, I can’t think who else have been up. Panteg might have been up. Not recently they haven’t, no.
MR: Tell me about Dick Apps…
JG: Have you got a couple of hours? He was a bit of a legend, Dick. He was a, he was a builder cum undertaker. And he was captain of Hythe for quite a few years. He wasn’t a bad cricketer, erm, but I think everybody in Kent new Dick Apps, he was such a famous – he was a legend, and he was Hythe, he was Hythe Cricket Club for many years. Unfortunately he passed away, I don’t know, two or three years ago I suppose. But his funeral there were hundreds there. But [inaudible], he was a batsman, err, he wasn’t a bad, he played a bit of football too. I believe he, I believe he was having trials for Charlton Athletic, he got a bad knee injury and it stopped his, finished his football career.
MR: Was Folkestone okay with you teaming up with Hythe?
JG: Oh, yes, yes, fine, yeah. It didn’t affect me playing for Folkestone, might of stopped a midweek game but no, ‘cause, might have stopped a one Sunday game, and I used to, used to jump in the car very early Saturday morning and drive back up to Folkestone and play Saturday afternoons, which wasn’t a great thing I think because I was absolutely shattered. But I did stipulate then, I sis play for the second 11 when I came back because I was in no fit state to play for first 11s. But err, and of course, back in those days, back in the ‘70s there wasn’t the traffic on the road you get now so it was a lot easier.
MR: Sounds like you played a lot of cricket…
JG: I did, yes.
MR: You mentioned Folkestone didn’t do a lot of touring…
JG: Well no, I was about to say they did start touring after that but I, I didn’t go. They started going to Worcestershire, erm, I don’t know much about it. And then they stopped going to Worcestershire and started going to Hampshire, and they haven’t been for a few years now. But yeah, they started touring. I’ve got a Dick Apps here, he died on the 24th of March, 2015. He was born in 1934. December the 9th, 1934.
MR: Did you go to his funeral?
JG: Yeah, he was a good friend, a good friend. And a lot of good, a lot of fun with him. I used to – although he was Hythe and I was Folkestone we got on very well together.
MR: Was Folkestone a sociable club?
JG: Yes, very much so, yes. In those days. Unfortunately, cricket now, they don’t socialize. I mean up to a few years ago you used to finish a game of cricket, straight in the bar and chat to whoever, you got to know everybody. Now, they just change, you get the odd one goes into the bar. A few Folkestone players go into the bar but the opposition usually goes straight off home now, so socially it’s nothing like it used to be.
MR: What would you do to socialize usually with the team?
JG: When? Before?
MR: Yeah.
JG: Oh, we’d just go in the bar and, and chat to each other and drink. Sometimes we might have a, a sort of dance or a barbeque a couple of times a year, but mainly we’d just go in the bar. When you’ve got the opposition in the bar, you used to be absolutely – this is the old clubhouse, before it was pulled down – it would be absolutely packed in there because both sides knew each other, and we’d start chatting to each other and talking to each other and reminiscing and things like that. But unfortunately it doesn’t happen now. It’s completely changed.
MR: When do you think it started to change?
JG: Oh crikey, I don’t know, five, six – I think a lot, nothing to do with the fact that 2013 we went from the old bar to the new clubhouse, but it started going then I think and err, I mean you get a few people coming up into the bar. Unfortunately now where we are now, the changing facilities are down in the basement, down on the ground floor, and the bar’s up on the third floor. So in the old clubhouse you had two dressing rooms, you came out and there was a bar in front of you. Now whether that had anything to do with it. But it’s not only just Folkestone, it’s all, it’s all clubs. Nobody seems to socialize much or talk to each other much now. Which is a great shame because you don’t get to know the opposition now like you used to. We used to know everybody. Every team that came down, you virtually knew all the players by name, and I can’t see it changing. I mean, I umpire our third 11 now, and I just, on Saturday we had, we played at Sandwich on their third team game, and their first team, and their skipper came up and said would you like to come back to the bar for a drink. I said, ‘It’s only four of our members who are old enough to drink!’ And so we all dashed off back, I went back to Folkestone with one other, and the rest all went home, so. Of the 11 players and me, 12, two people ended up drinking back at Folkestone. Well I only had one drink but yeah, unfortunately that’s the way it goes now. And I got back into the bar at Folkestone about half 10, quarter to eight, and there was only about four, five people up there, where in the old days it would’ve been packed. It was one first team player there, I don’t know where they’d all gone, ‘cause they were playing at home.
MR: I see. So it was quite a scene then back in the day?
JG: Yes.
MR: I was going to ask you about the old pavilion – can you describe it for me?
JG: Erm, yes, did you see a picture of it when you went in, came down?
MR: I did, yes.
JG: Yeah. It’s, it’s an old brick building, it had three floors. It had a basement where we, we, that basement we had the cellar for our bar, and there was toilets both ends and storage. The first floor, ground floor was the changing rooms each end, the kitchen, and the bar, and then you had some stairs that went upstairs, not so much out – inside the room you had the old scorebox, where the scorers when the county used to score with the scoreboard, and the other side you sort of had, there was two rooms, and then you had a balcony either side, which was obviously outside. That’s basically what it was. But unfortunately Shepway, the local council didn’t maintain it very well. We maintained, all we had was the middle, the ground floor with the dressing rooms, the bar, the kitchen and the – and we maintained that, looked after that but unfortunately they let it go and that’s one of the reasons why, I think, it all started off with the hockey club going to – you’ve heard of Roger de Haan? Saga holidays. Yeah, well they went to him asking if they could look after, give them some money to build some new astro for their hockey pitches because the astro at Shepway had, they weren’t maintaining, and he said to them, ‘Well if I’m gonna do that let’s do the job properly’. So he donated all those millions to build the new clubhouse, a big hall for playing football and hockey in, and two new astros. Completely re-laid two cricket squares, and that’s how it, that’s why we left the old pavilion. And then they knocked the old pavilion down. That started about 2010, we started doing that and I think it took two or three years. And we actually had the opening on, in March 2013.
MR: How did you feel about that process? Saying goodbye to the old pavilion?
JG: I still like the old pavilion, it was, it was more homely, it was – but what would it be like now? I don’t know. Sides would probably not go in the bar anyway now so, I think progress – I’ve got used to, used to the new place now. We can hold far more functions in the new place, it’s a lot bigger, we can have a, we have our end of season dinner in there now, and we can put, we can probably put nearly a hundred people if we want to, and the hockey club have theirs, and the running club are involves, they have theirs, and we have quite a lot, and we have quizzes up there. Probably not as much as we should do now, oh and obviously this year everything’s come to a halt because of all the problems we’ve had, but in the past, past few years, yes. But it’s also used for other venues, they do weddings up there now and funerals, but they can shut it off, and we’ve still got our own little area where we can drink.
MR: Was the old pavilion used exclusively by the cricket club?
JG: And hockey club. Cricket and hockey yes. It’s always been cricket and hockey, yes. We’ve, six months of the year for us, six months of the year for – well actually we only had five months, they had seven months but err, and the running club used to use it, the running club in Folkestone who have got far more involved now because they are going to put, well, we expect any day now a running track to be put in down at the bottom, at the bottom of the second team, the third team cricket wicket, which is football pitches, they’re putting a running track in there, which the running club are organising. That is also funded by Roger de Haan.
MR: But it’s always been shared?
JG: Oh yes, by hockey and cricket yes.
MR: What was that relationship like?
JG: Yes, yes, there’s be the odd spat but mainly yes it was very good. A lot of the cricketers played hockey and a lot of the, vice versa, so. As I say I was one of them, I played cricket and hockey, and we’ve got quite a few players now that play cricket and play hockey.
MR: You mentioned that the council didn’t tend to the upkeep of the pavilion – was that something the club pushed them to do?
JG: Well, we, we – you’re wasting your own, wasting your time trying to talk to them into doing it, they weren’t prepared to spend any money on it. The roof started leaking, and erm, the showers in the men’s dressing room leaked through down to the basement and they had to prop that up with props so the floor didn’t collapse. I mean it was getting in quite a state. It needed hundreds of thousands of pounds spent on it to put it back to what it should have been.
MR: If that money was available would you have preferred to stay there?
JG: Erm, I don’t – that’s a difficult question. I think now we’ve done it, I’m quite pleased we’ve done it. It would have been nice to have had it. It’s one, it’s a traditional old, erm, pavilion, but with the way the hockey club and things have gone down there, and they’ve got – we’ve now got a 3G football pitch which came along later and so, I don’t think it would have been big enough.
MR: Were you – did you play a part in the renovation process?
JG: I was, yeah. I was – well I still am, I’m just about to – I’m a trustee, and I was a trustee right from the, when we started, 2011 I think, something like that, 2010. I’ve been a trustee, I’ve just informed them I want to retire because, let someone younger do it. But yeah, I got quite – fortunately I was always available because I was retired I was always available to go down and chat to the builders and…
MR: Was it a fairly smooth process?
JG: Most of the time, yes. The building, snagging was a bit of a problem, they err, the builders, I wouldn’t say they were the best company we’ve ever – I shan’t tell you who they were but a lot of things needed doing at the end that we really had to chase them to get done. The snagging. But the rest of it, the cricket square, err, we had professionals in to do that and they did a very good job, they did half one – obviously you can’t do it all in one go so we did half one year, half the next year. And they laid a new wicket on the bottom ground, which is now excellent, and, ‘cause there’s two astros, they’ve got, which the hockey club use and, so. Oh we have a netball section as well but they, they’re not involved, they just play netball there, the girls. And you’ve got the 3G which Folkestone Invicta use quite a bit and they get a lot of football players on that, so there’s a lot of activity going on down there now. And it’ll be even more when the athletics track’s up and running but I don’t know – that’s been weeks, keep putting off starting, I don’t know what the problem is there.
MR: Was there an opening ceremony when it was finished?
JG: Oh God yes. We had the Minister for Sport down. Don’t ask me who he was, and we had our local MP in, what’s it, Damion Collins, he was, he came in and, I can’t remember who the Minister of Sport was, he came in to the opening, yeah. We had a big, big opening.
MR: Was it a good day?
JG: Yeah, very good day, yes. Unfortunately, I’d, I almost didn’t make it because I had a hip replacement that week on the Monday, and I was due to come out on the Wednesday, and they almost didn’t get out because my blood pressure was all wrong but they sorted it out and so the opening was on the Friday, and we, we all lined up, the trustees, to speak to them, the Minister of Sport, and there was me on crutches, and there was another guy on walking sticks, and he said, ‘You two are a good advert for a sports club aren’t you?’
MR: When did you retire from playing?
JG: Oh crikey, 10 years ago I suppose. I did play a game about two years ago, when our fourth team was short and I said, ‘Well I better, instead of umpire, I better play’, and err, and I had to captain because it was all youngsters, but apart from that I suppose it must be 10 years ago I suppose. Can’t really remember. It just happened I think, I decided – my legs weren’t getting me about as much as they should do, or so well as they should have done.
MR: What team was that you were playing for at the time?
JG: Erm, I was playing mainly twos, I think the twos, I played a few threes games. We only started threes and fours in the last, I suppose 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago. All of a sudden we started getting a lot more colts interested, youngsters. That’s when we started our, our colts. We run colts for quite a few years but it got quite, quite big, and we was getting quite a few wanted to start plying senior cricket. That’s what started it. We started a fourth team but then we struggled to get four out, but this year we, we’ve managed – although our fourth team don’t play in a league, erm, well none of us our playing in a league this year at the moment, we’re just playing friendlies, but we’ve got enough players to get four teams out this year.
MR: Looking back on your career, what were the highlights? Your personal highlights?
JG: My personal highlights? I’ve got to brag now have I?! My highlight to me was getting 137 not out against Dover second 11, which was always good against your local rivals.
MR: 137?
JG: Yeah, I got 137 not out. It was in the second 11. This was, oh, this was in 1967 I think it was. It’s something that always sticks in my mind. And I suppose us winning the Kent, although I wasn’t playing then, us winning the Kent League a couple of times, that’s the highlight of the, of the cricket club.
MR: That 137 – what do you remember about that day?
JG: It was at Dover, at Crabble at Dover which unfortunately is no longer a cricket ground, ‘cause Dover Cricket Club don’t exist anymore, I don’t know if you knew that? Yeah, it was a lovely hot day and yeah, it was just everything clicked. It’s one of those things you, one of those games you remember, yeah. I mean I took wickets quite often, I can’t remember who I took wickets against, it was because it was the batting. I can remember – I only got about four or five hundreds in my life but err, you could, I remember those. The first one I got was against Saltwood, which was also [inaudible], before the Dover one. Erm, I don’t know what year that was. Saltwood is a village just above Hythe. I can’t think, I got about 112 then, I can’t remember but I think that are probably the two highlights from my own personal point of view.
MR: Do you know what your average was for your career?
JG: Haven’t got a clue. Didn’t keep averages, probably mid-20s I should think. I don’t, I don’t know.
MR: Were you always a leading batsman?
JG: Oh no, no, no. I wasn’t a leading batsman. There were far better batsman in our first team than me. I used to come in about six or seven, lower, lower order. Because I used to bowl a little bit, too. Now we had two or three batsmen, a chap called Jimmy Howgego. He was our main batsman at Folkestone when I was playing, he scored lots and lots of runs for Folkestone, and he played a few games for Kent too as well. But he was never on the staff.
MR: I was going to ask you who are the best players you played with?
JG: Yeah I would say Jim, Jim – we’re still very good friends, he was probably the best, best player we played against. He got – he claims he got, I don’t doubt it because I’ve seen him get many, 150 centuries in his career as a cricketer. There was another chap who does a bit of coaching for us now called Roy Downey. He was very, very good. He was an all-rounder, good cricketer, good batsman. Stan Purcell, another very good opening bat in the period when we were doing well. We had a quick bowler called Gerard Crofton, who was probably as quick as I’ve seen in, in club cricket.
MR: Did some of these players play for Kent as well?
JG: Erm, Jim did. And there’s one I’ve forgotten, our wicket keeper David Bourne, who was an excellent wicket keeper, probably would have gone on a lot further for Kent but there was a chap called Alan Knott who was exactly the same age who was – you’ve obviously heard of Alan Knott, who was, went on to play for Kent and England. But David Bourne was an excellent wicket keeper, too. They were the backbone of a very useful side we had in the ‘80s.
MR: What about opposing players – was there anyone particularly good that you came up against?
JG: Yeah, we came up against quite a few players. There was a chap, who was a very good friend, played for Gravesend called Keith Wooding. He claims he got a 150 centuries, then we played quite a few Kent players. I played against John Shepherd, err, Enfield, he used to come down all the way to play at Folkestone on a Sunday. They had, a couple, they had Wayne Daniel came down with them before he was famous, played for Enfield on a Sunday. Erm, Chris Tavaré played for Sevenoaks Vine against us. It’s difficult trying to remember all these players now, there’s quite a few county players playing for clubs against us, yeah.
MR: Are there any games that stick out in your mind from your career?
JG: I’d have to think on that one. I can’t, can’t really say. I can’t think of one at the moment.
MR: The Kent League championship in 1989 – you weren’t there for that?
JG: You know where – I was in Wales at a wedding! My wife’s niece got married. Apparently they had a very good night, they beat Holmesdale, which is near Sevenoaks, and they had a very good night in the bar apparently afterwards. ‘Cause I rang them up in the evening and I didn’t get a lot of sense out of a lot of them.
MR: Would you have played in that match if you were around?
JG: No, no, no. Not then. I had finished. I was working, couldn’t play many Saturdays and I don’t think I would’ve been in the first team then, no.
MR: And you got into umpiring?
JG: Yeah, yeah, I’m not qualified or anything but we needed an umpire for, for one of our lower sides, and I said, ‘Well I’m doing nothing’, this is obviously after I’d retired, I said I’d do it, so I do, I started doing the fourth team, and a friend of mine did the third team, and unfortunately my friend passed away and, so I went up and took it over, the third team, and the fourth team packed up anyway, so I’ve been doing the third team ever since. The occasional second team game if our second team umpire is away, but I don’t like doing it. It’s a bit too competitive, that’s in the Kent League, and err, I’m much happier doing the third team.
MR: Do you get a bit of flack in the second league?
JG: Erm, not really no because if I start getting flack you quickly warn the players you don’t abuse the umpire. Erm, no it’s just the rules are all different, different, different things with no balls and the wides you have to be strict on what wides you give, erm, and things like that. I remember I was umpiring up at Bromley, with our second 11, and I called no ball, and then, they, everybody started looking at me. I said, ‘Oh what’s wrong?’, apparently, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, you put your hand in the air, and make it round in circles and say it’s a free hit. I didn’t know that! I soon learnt. But in the third team we don’t do – I know where I am in the third team.
MR: Playing career aside, you’ve served in all sorts of positions with the club…
JG: Oh God, I captained for one year and – ’77 I think it was, just for one year, and then I became chairman in 1998, and I was chairman until, where are we now? 2018, or was it 2019. 2019, I gave up in 2019, as chairman. I thought I’d have a break from it, and our president, I said to you, Bill Hewson, died, oh crikey, a few months after I give up as chairman and they said, ‘We’d like to make you president now, so’. I’ve never officially been elected as president because it was after our AGM initially, because we couldn’t have an AGM, so I’m still officially a president elect.
MR: What does being the chairman involve?
JG: Erm, just the running of the club, making sure everything goes, goes – when I started in 1998 it was easy, you just turned up really for our meetings and everything but it’s got so involved now, what with child welfare and we, well, that’s what Joe is, she’s a child welfare officer. Parents, we didn’t have problems like parents, parents come along, you know, ‘Little Jimmy’s not happy because someone was rude to him’, and things like that, and you get a lot more involved, so it’s one of the reasons why I gave up. We’ve got a younger man taken over as chairman now.
MR: You did it for nearly 30 years or something?
JG: Twenty, 20.
MR: That’s a long time…
JG: It is a long time yes, yeah.
MR: Was that difficult with your career as well?
JG: No, no, no, no. As I said, it might’ve been more difficult now, if I was still working, but don’t forget I, I was only – six, eight years I was working and the other, what 2006 to, I was retired so I could do a lot more. That’s why I could do a lot more as a trustee, at Three Hills when there were problems with the builders wanted to see me or something.
MR: You mentioned quite a lot of the changes that have occurred at the club – what have been the big ones for you?
JG: In cricket or social?
MR: Well both…
JG: Well the cricket, the cricket’s a lot more competitive now than it was. It was a lot friendlier, erm, back in the ‘60s, ‘70s, a lot friendlier. Some, some, there are quite a few sides that come down who can be quite aggressive, and some are okay. The Kent League are trying to stamp it out, I mean language can be a problem and abusing the umpires, there’s quite a few sides – I don’t get involved with this now because it’s all a first, mainly first team that’s, they’ve, situation I think where they’ve probably banned a few players for abusing umpires and other players. Socially, I think as I said, we try to do a few more socials with the cricket club, although we haven’t this year. Although we’ve got a quiz coming on in a couple of weeks time. But socially, as I say, you don’t mix with the opposition like we used to. Nothing like we used to now. I, I went to – we had a 20/20 at Ashford last Tuesday and James Tredwell had been doing the umpiring for our first team, he couldn’t do it so he said could I go along and do it, and I turned up, I used to know every Ashford player. I knew one. And that’s it, you don’t know players now. Not like you used to. I think out first team probably knew one or two of them by sight, but you don’t – it’s difficult for me to say about the first team because I don’t get involved with it, but I, they certainly don’t, don’t come up in the bar. They might have a couple of them come, but certainly don’t socialize like they did.
MR: It sound like the club is expanding and it’s still a popular sport in Folkestone?
JG: Oh, very, very popular, yeah, yeah. Very popular. As I say we’ve got – a lot of the youngsters this year, I mean whether the fact is they’re not going away on holiday and we’ve got more availability I don’t know, but there’s a lot of, we’ve got a lot of fathers and sons playing, we’ve got, I mean we played a couple of weeks ago and we had three, three lots of fathers and sons playing in the third team.
MR: Do you have children?
JG: No. No, we never got round to it. Too busy playing cricket. I hope my wife didn’t hear that!
MR: Was your wife involved in the club?
JG Err no, not really no. She goes down there occasionally but no she’s not.
MR: But it is a family thing for you – your cousin Jo is involved with the club?
JG: Yes, she erm, funnily enough, I don’t know how many years ago now, seven or eight years ago, our secretary, might have been a bit longer, we need a secretary at the cricket club. ‘Oh I’ll do it’, she said. I thought she was joking, and she started doing it and then she was very good and she came and took on several roles, yeah. Child welfare officer, and she’s very good at it. I thought when I packed up as chairman she would pack up. I think she was going to but I think she enjoyed it too much, she’s carried on.
MR: I think Jo mentioned that at the family home a lot of players would come and stay there?
JG: Lots of players used to come down and stay with us because they used to, well it was cheap for them wasn’t it? Yeah, we had quite a few. I can’t think who they are. I know Tony Catt, who you probably wouldn’t know stayed, Derick Ufton I think did, it’s probably players you don’t know. Erm, I’m just trying to think who else. Frank Tyson appeared one day in our, Leslie Todd, these are players you, you probably – you’ve probably heard of Frank Tyson probably…
MR: I’m ashamed to say I haven’t.
JG: Well, no, he’s going back to the ‘50s and the ‘60s, yeah. It was in those early years, but now they, they’re all put up in hotels by, by the county, or they travel – they’ve all got cars now.
MR: So your father was very connected with Kent cricket?
JG: Oh yeah, he was on the Kent committee.
MR: Did you get involved with the Kent committee?
JG: No, not at all. I’m a member of the Kent the county, but I don’t, not involved at all now. I used to know a lot of the players, I don’t know any of them now.
MR: You still umpire and I assume you still watch the cricket as well?
JG: Yes, yeah I still umpire. I watch Kent regularly. Well, I have done until this year. Yeah, I go down to Canterbury regularly and watch county play. And as I say umpire every Saturday.
MR: Probably a difficult question but what are your fondest memories of your association with the cricket club?
JG: Fondest memories. I’ve made a lot of good friends over the years – excuse me, I’m just going to cough – I’ve made a lot of good friends over the years who, we started three of four of them when we were teenagers and we’re still friends now. I think that’s, you know, lasting friendship with people. Unfortunately a few of them are passed away, which is a shame, but yeah, lasting friendship with, with players I started with back in the ‘50s, late ‘50s.